The downside is that 20CV can be extremely challenging to properly sharpen. What sets the 556-1 apart is the CPM-20Vsteel alloy which you wonât find on any of the previous Griptilian models. I would recommend keeping your M4 blades with a thin coat of oil on them when not in use to prevent them from corroding. I dunno about you, but I can absolutely tell the difference in cutting ability between my Kershaw cryo (8cr13mov) and my sog ⦠Higher chromium amounts allows some of the metal to form a protective, passive film of chromium oxide that repels rust and prevents staining. Niobium is even better than vanadium at keeping grain sizes small, so its addition to the alloy helps increase edge retention without giving up toughness or wear resistance. The combination of carbides in CPM 20CV makes the blade tough, but not as resistant to breakage or chipping as other premium steels. Zero Tolerance: 0456 - Sinkevich Design Please note: our remaining stock is in the CPM-20CV blade steel (formerly listed as CTS-204P). Hey all, this is my first post, though I've been lurking around for awhile now. Indistinguishable from the same brand as a user for me, but different when you go from Spyderco to Hinderer to ZT. Source: Knife Steel Nerds. Knife makers tend to love CPM S35VN, so if you've spent any time on knife forums, you're probably familiar with it -- or at least have heard about it in passing. HRC | 58-61 | 59-61 Just a great compromise of wear resistance, toughness and corrosion resistance. Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with multiple heat treatments. Toughness. CTS-204p is a fantastic super steel and the Paramilitary 2 is probably the highest performing folder for the money. Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all essentially the same steel and sport a near identical composition. The addition of molybdenum increases the material's strength to properly hold the edge. CHART The m390 0562cf's are more expensive than the 204p version because they're more rare. The SOCOM Elite® Manual sets the standard for tactical/utility cutlery. Hardness Ability. This premium "super steel" is used in many Benchmade knives and several Hinderer and Zero Tolerance models. The knife was originally in m390 but they switched to 204p because they were having problems getting m390. It's comparable to Bohler's M390 stainless steel or Carpenter's CTS-204P and, like those alloys, takes a mirrored finish well. The Zero Tolerance 0456 is a high-quality American-made folding knife that carries many of the features of a high-end knife - top quality materials, high tolerance manufacturing, and a design that reflects modern aesthetics with an eye towards performance. In a smaller blade, like an everyday carry folder, 20CV is tough enough for most uses. Made by @Crucible CPM 20CV is a martensitic stainless steel high in Vanadium, Chromium, and Carbon for excellent wear resistance and corrosion resistance, itâs used for plastic injection feed screws, barrel liners, screw tips, mold cavities, and premium Knives.. If youâre looking for all all-around best knife steel, youâd be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. Knifemaking & Materials M390 vs 20CV vs 204P â 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? CTS-204p which I have, out performed M390 by some degree in Jim Ankerson's edge retension testing. Along with CTS XHP, these include CTS 204P, CTS B70P, CTS B75P, CTS BD1, CTS BD30P, CTS 204P, CTS 20CP, and CTS 40CP. Crucible achieved the balance by combining a vanadium for edge retention with a high percentage of chromium. It is a bit trickier to sharpen (we recommend diamond stones) but once it is sharp it stays ⦠They're all corrosion resistant steels aimed at toughness and edge retention. CTS 204p Vs M390 CTS 204p. This ZT flipper design comes acclaimed designer Dmitry Sinkevich. Zero Tolerance, Chris Reeve and Hinderer all make several popular models with S35VN blades. Carpenter CTS-204P is a powder metallurgy stainless steel. interestingly, Crucible doesn't list CPM 20CV steel on their website. It's comparable to Bohler's M390 stainless steel or Carpenter's CTS-204P and, like those alloys, takes a mirrored finish well. The only m4 I generally see tested is from Benchmade or spyderco, some custom makers take it to a higher Rockwell. Comparing: CPM S35VN vs. CPM 20CV. And thanks for the info. At lower Rockwell's 20cv can be tough but not really at 60-62hrc. Choosing the best steel for your everyday carry knife or another blade that you'll be relying on for a specific task can require some research. Scales are one thing, but letâs discuss the business end. The CATRA test, which measures the sharpness and edge life of a blade by comparing it to 440C, rates CPM 20CV 180% better. Crucible's goal was to create an even tougher steel that didn't sacrifice resistance to corrosion, and they did that by using niobium carbides in place of some of S30V's vanadium carbides. Molybdenum helps to prevent the pitting type of corrosion by lending the steel more strength. CPM steht für âCrucible Particle Metallurgyâ und ist einer der beliebtesten rostfreien ⦠Zero Tolerance and Belarusian custom knife maker Dmitry Sinkevich have teamed up to produce the 0456. This premium "super steel" is used in many Benchmade knives and several Hinderer and Zero Tolerance models. Another consideration is corrosion. The Griptillian has a CPM 20CV-steel blade. So we can understand more the Steel, letâs see its chemical composition. Latrobe was purchased by Carpenter in 2011 [13] though Carpenter continued to sell their CTS-204P. The 0456 folding knife blade is constructed of USA-made CPM-20CV ⦠Too common to be called "Hype". Carbon | 1.4% | 1.9% The CATRA test measures the sharpness and edge life of a blade by comparing it to 440C; CPM S35VN is 145% better. Reply. Ive only ever had 154cm and S30V from benchmade, and many other steels from different manufacturers, but I"ve never heard of M4 or 20CV. This Zero Tolerance knife is made in the USA. These facts alone should tell you something. Vanadium | 3% | 4% M4 is not stainless, but it is tougher than the rest. I also did experiments to analyze the different products including carbide size, impurity levels, and inclusions. If you'll be using a larger blade or need something that will work for frequent, heavy duty tasks, the toughness of the S35VN may make it a better choice. When choosing between CPM S35VN and CPM 20CV, the first question to ask is whether you value toughness, or the blade's ability to keep from breaking, over edge retention, or the blade's ability to stay sharp. Many quality knife manufacturers use both types of steel in their offerings, so it's important to remember that both are good choices for toughness, wear and edge retention. The addition of niobium makes CPM S35VN about 15% to 20% tougher than CPM S30V without giving up any durability. Introduction to CPM S35VN CPM 20CV is a steel created by Crucible to be excellent at resisting wear and corrosion, balanced with good toughness. I say go for it. Knifemaking & Materials M390 vs 20CV vs 204P â 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? Which is bull, anybody who knows anything about knives will tell you a quality fixed blade is inherently sturdier than a folder, since there's no lock to fail on you. Yeah, you can also add CTS-204P to that club. Crucible achieved the balance by combining a vanadium for edge retention with a high percentage of chromium. But my employer frowns upon fixed blades because they're "more likely to be used violently or injure you on accident". Corrosion Resistance (out of 5) | 3.5 | 4. The vanadium in the alloy works to create a fine grain structure that helps hold an edge. The CATRA test, which measures the sharpness and edge life of a blade by comparing it to 440C, rates CPM 20CV 180% better. Edge Retention (out of 5) | 4 | 5 This grade is equal to CTS-204P and Böhler M390 steel. From an elemental perspective, the two ⦠Comparing: CPM S35VN vs. CPM 20CV. Edge Retention. CPM 20CV is one of the best steels for retaining an edge. 7 thoughts on âM390 vs 20CV vs 204P â 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology?â andre says: April 1, 2020 at 8:55 pm Very interesting insight into pm steels⦠one question, the appearance of 20cv and m390 microgaphs⦠It looks like there are a larger amount of smaller carbides as well as the ones that are ⦠Latrobe was purchased by Carpenter in 2011 [13] though Carpenter continued to sell their CTS-204P. CPM 20CV Steel Introduction. You are viewing 20CV. S35VN is as tough on longitude as 420C (the hardest stainless steel), but five times tougher on transverse so it won't chip or break. This powder metallurgy metal features vanadium-rich carbides for top use level of ⦠The composition is almost identical to Bohler M390. Hardness Ability. Be first to receive news about sales, coupons & new promotions. The two steels also have a similar hardness profile on the Rockwell scale - up to 61. No one type of steel is right for every knife, and by fully understanding the differences between popular types of steel, you'll be better able to make the right decision for your next big knife purchase. -- | CPM S35VN Steel | CPM 20CV � Data Sheets: 20CV Data Sheet CTS-204P Data Sheet M390 Data Sheet Too common to be called "Hype". Adding molybdenum increases the strength needed to hold the edge over time, and the added tungsten also helps keep the edge. I have all 3 from the same brand (20cv and m390 PM2, 204p Military; and m390 and 20cv from Hinderer or ZT). Its high austenizing ⦠They're all corrosion resistant steels aimed at toughness and edge retention. The 0456 offers the premium cutting power for which ZT is well known in a knife with standout looks that are just waiting to be shown off. How is the corrosion resistance on 20cv? 20CV and M390 are shown in the table above for comparison purposes. CPM 20CV is one of the best steels for retaining an edge. It's comparable to Bohler's M390 stainless steel or Carpenter's CTS-204P and, like those alloys, takes a mirrored finish well. Molybdenum helps to prevent the pitting type of corrosion by lending the steel more strength. The 0456 offers the premium cutting power for which ZT is well known in a ⦠All-Around: M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV. Knife makers tend to love CPM S35VN, so if you've spent any time on knife forums, you're probably familiar with it -- or at least have heard about it in passing. That's where m4 shines. Toughness. The two steels also have a similar hardness profile on the Rockwell scale - up to 61. How Are The Two Steels Similar? For use in a marine environment or other area where corrosion is a concern, the 20CV with its higher chromium content will resist rust and staining better than the S35VN steel. The addition of molybdenum also helps to keep away corrosion, specifically the type that causes pitting in the steel. Crucible's goal was to create an even tougher steel that didn't sacrifice resistance to corrosion, and they did that by using niobium carbides in place of some of S30V's vanadium carbides. Martensite forms when austenite cools so quickly that ⦠They're all corrosion resistant steels aimed at toughness and edge retention. Niobium is even better than vanadium at keeping grain sizes small, so its addition to the alloy helps increase edge retention without giving up toughness or wear resistance. On the Rockwell Hardness scale, CPM S35VN rates 59-61 HRC. I have an esee izula for that, great little blade. It stays sharp for a long time, is stainless and extremely hard. Toughness (out of 5) | 4 | 3 For more info check Duratech 20CV ⦠Still 20cv is supposed to be a good steel. On the Rockwell Hardness scale, CPM S35VN rates 58-61 HRC. CPM 20CV is a martensitic steel, which refers to its hard crystalline structure with lens-shaped or lenticular grains. Both CPM S35VN and CPM 20CV contain vanadium, which is valued for its ability to create a finer grain in the steel that typically improves its ability to hold an edge. When choosing between CPM S35VN and CPM 20CV, the first question to ask is whether you value toughness, or the blade's ability to keep from breaking, over edge retention, or the blade's ability to stay sharp. For that matter, most of the steels like Cruwear, K390, etc, derive reputations from being stable at high hardness. Hardness Ability. ... Because the older run of the knife was with CTS-204P I called the company prior to purchase because I really wanted the CPM-20 CV. The answer depends on what you'll be primarily using the knife for. Your own use of the blade will determine which one is slightly better for your needs. S35VN is a tougher steel, but falls short of 20CV in edge retention. Edge Retention. Edge Retention. I have a knife with m390 and love this steel 204p and 20cv are supposed to be US versions of bohlers m390. Stainless/Corrosion Resistance. With significant amounts of Chromium, Molybdenum, Vanadium, and Tungsten, these steels are 100% ready for action. The answer depends on what you'll be primarily using the knife for. It is one of the most coveted steels of the moment. It's comparable to Bohler's M390 stainless steel or Carpenter's CTS-204P and, like those alloys, takes a mirrored finish well. CPM-20CV is Crucibleâs version of Bohlerâs popular M390 steel which also influenced Carpenter to copycat with CTS-204P. Could be mistaken though. I wrote an article describing the difference in process between different powder metallurgy production companies making knife steels. The addition of molybdenum also helps to keep away corrosion, specifically the type that causes pitting in the steel. CPM-M4 is a bit of a different animal though, it's harder and tougher than m390, CPM-20CV or CTS-204P, but it's a lot less corrosion resistant than any of those three. Zero Tolerance: 0456 - Sinkevich Design Please note: our remaining stock is in the CPM-20CV blade steel (formerly listed as CTS-204P). In a carbon-rich alloy like CPM 20CV, the process of austenitization heats the steel until its crystalline structure changes to become austenite instead of ferrite. 20cv will hold an edge the longest, so if you don’t plan on beating on the thing I would go with that. (Carbides are hard particles comprised of carbon alloys in the steel matrix that indicate toughness and wear resistance but can be brittle in the wrong combinations. For use in a marine environment or other area where corrosion is a concern, the 20CV with its higher chromium content will resist rust and staining better than the S35VN steel. In a smaller blade, like an everyday carry folder, 20CV is tough enough for most uses. CPM-M4 is a bit of a different animal though, it's harder and tougher than m390, CPM-20CV or CTS-204P, but it's a lot less corrosion resistant than any of those three. Zero Tolerance and Belarusian custom knife maker Dmitry Sinkevich have teamed up to produce the 0456. Spyderco planned its initial use of CTS XHP in the creation of a 5.3-ounce knife with a 3.13-inch skinner blade. Hardness Ability. On the Rockwell Hardness scale, CPM S35VN rates 59-61 HRC. Your own use of the blade will determine which one is slightly better for your needs. Like you said, m390 and 204p (and also 20CV) are basically identical Unless of course, you would like to force the patina. Zero Tolerance, Chris Reeve and Hinderer all make several popular models with S35VN blades. Worth $200 bucks for a custom knife in 20CV then? (Carbides are hard particles comprised of carbon alloys in the steel matrix that indicate toughness and wear resistance but can be brittle in the wrong combinations. It is highly wear resistant so it will hold an edge for a long time. For that matter, most of the steels like Cruwear, K390, etc, derive reputations from being stable at high hardness. CPM stands for, âCrucible Particle Metallurgyâ and is one of the single most coveted stainless âsuper steelsâ ⦠CTS-204P. sam says. M390 vs 20CV vs 204P â 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? The addition of molybdenum increases the material's strength to properly hold the edge. Yeah, you can also add CTS-204P to that club. Corrosion Resistance (out of 5) | 3.5 | 4 Despite the good edge retention, S35VN can be a bit difficult to sharpen. Stainless/Corrosion Resistance. Both CPM S35VN and CPM 20CV contain vanadium, which is valued for its ability to create a finer grain in the steel that typically improves its ability to hold an edge. The original SOCOM has remained a highly popular folding knife since its inception in 1996. The high percentage of chromium with a bit of molybdenum makes 20CV one of the best high-end, corrosion-resistent steels used in knife blades today. Just a great compromise of wear resistance, ⦠Post by Larrin » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:16 pm . Edge Retention. Come to Patreon if you want updates on testing as it is ⦠One of the top tier steels you’d want on a nice knife. S35VN is as tough on longitude as 420C (the hardest stainless steel), but five times tougher on transverse so it won't chip or break. The downside is that 20CV can be extremely challenging to properly sharpen. The high percentage of chromium with a bit of molybdenum makes 20CV one of the best high-end, corrosion-resistent steels used in knife blades today. This puts them comfortably in the middle-to-high-end of the hardness range for premium knife steels. M390 vs 20CV vs 204P - 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy. Thatâs part of why itâs so highly regarded, in the first place. Chromium | 14% | 20% Many others have reported theirs being top notch in everyway also. It also helped Carpenter to create CTS-204P, which is also quite similar. Been lots of talk about M390/20CV/204P, about there HRC, about how HRC is relevant to edge retention, and how relevant my ⦠I have all 3 from the same brand (20cv and m390 PM2, 204p Military; and m390 and 20cv from Hinderer or ZT). The finished S35VN steel is made of 1.4% carbon, 14% chromium, 3% vanadium, 2% molybdenum and 0.5% niobium. All of the steels run sub $200, the kydex sheathes from Bradford are nice too and I would recommend them often the leather ones. Chromium is what gives steel its ability to resist corrosion, but it is less tough and wear resistant than other metals. There are only a few hundred of the m390 0562s out there. CPM-20CV is Crucibleâs version of Bohlerâs popular M390 steel which also influenced Carpenter to copycat with CTS-204P.. As a Powder Metallurgy (PM) tool steel, you get a combination of impressive wear resistance and edge retention plus the added benefit of being highly corrosion resistant due to high levels of chromium. Thatâs part of why itâs so highly regarded, in the first place. Of the three PM2's I have had, it was the only one out of the box that the knife was just flawless in every aspect. Niobium | 0.5% | 0 20cv is an improvement in my opinion. Toughness. CPM S35VN is made with 14% chromium to maximize stain resistance and corrosion without giving up too much toughness. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The CATRA test measures the sharpness and edge life of a blade by comparing it to 440C; CPM S35VN is 145% better. Winkler Highland Hatchet - Curly Oak Tomahawk, Chris Reeve Large Sebenza 21 Tanto - Micarta Inlay Folding Knife, Kurt Merriken Custom 3" Phantom San Mai Damascus, Brian Tighe - Tighe Down Integral - RWL34 & Carbon Fiber Inlay, Hinderer Extreme Duty Pen Copper - EDP Tactical Pen, Tuff Writer Precision Press Flamed Titanium Tactical Pen. The addition of niobium makes CPM S35VN about 15% to 20% tougher than CPM S30V without giving up any durability. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. M390 / CPM 20CV is a PM stainless steel that offers good wear resistance with excellent corrosion resistance through the use of high chromium and vanadium content. The PM process combined with the high chromium content imparts M390 / CPM 20CV with good grindability and excellent polishability. Given a good process, the M390/20CV/204P family can be plenty edge-stable (read as: not chippy or prone to rolling) at 62-64 hrc. This Griptillian has a blade of CPM 20CV-steel. So we can understand more the Steel, letâs see its chemical ⦠Not sure yet on designs and colors. CTS 204P is a premium stainless steel that offers high performance, and the closest equivalents I can think of would be the two following steels; M390 from @Bohler and the CPM 20CV from @Crucible, they are premium steels with close chemical composition and both contribute in making high-end knives (with a little ⦠It's low maintenance and great at absolutely everything) Higher chromium amounts allows some of the metal to form a protective, passive film of chromium oxide that repels rust and prevents staining. Image from a 2005 Blade Magazine [8] Carpenter steel introduced their copy of M390 as âMicromelt 20-4â in 2009 [10][11] and was renamed as âCTS-204Pâ by the beginning of 2010 [12]. The vanadium in the alloy works to create a fine grain structure that helps hold an edge. Crucible's CPM melting process makes steel more uniform down to the microscopic level for very stable, tough steel that is resistant to cracking or breaking. Many quality knife manufacturers use both types of steel in their offerings, so it's important to remember that both are good choices for toughness, wear and edge retention. It is made up of 1.9% carbon, 20% chromium, 4% vanadium, 1% molybdenum and 0.6% tungsten. This puts them comfortably in the middle-to-high-end of the hardness range for premium knife steels. Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Carpenter CTS-204P, Latrobe DuraTech 20CV, Bohler-Uddeholm M390 Version 4.36 Chromium is what gives steel its ability to resist corrosion, but it is less tough and wear resistant than other metals. The higher percentage of vanadium in this steel creates a fine grain structure to better hold an edge. For a heavy-on-the-science look at carbides, visit Knife Steel Nerds). Both have exceptional edge retention, though I'd say m390/20cv/204p out lasts it from what I've seen in all the independent tests. With the exception of the Doug Ritter Griptilian versions (previously offered in S30V, and recently in M390 as a limited edition), Benchmade has not offered the beloved ⦠The ZT 0562CF is a sturdy folding knife that features a carbon fiber handle and CPM-20CV blade steel. CPM 20CV-steel. But the question I have is which steel would you recommend? It is one of the most coveted steel types of the moment. Stainless/Corrosion Resistance. The finished S35VN steel is made of 1.4% carbon, 14% chromium, 3% vanadium, 2% molybdenum and 0.5% niobium. The combination of carbides in CPM 20CV makes the blade tough, but not as resistant to breakage or chipping as other premium steels. Indistinguishable from the same brand as a user for me, but different when you go from Spyderco to Hinderer to ZT. CPM S35VN is made with 14% chromium to maximize stain resistance and corrosion without giving up too much toughness. To the compare by cts 204p vs m390 now the described the cts 204p.The nearly four-inch blade is created of fine-grained CTS 204P, a challenging, use and deterioration proof metal ready for hard-duty. Introduction to CPM 20CV It is made up of 1.9% carbon, 20% chromium, 4% vanadium, 1% molybdenum and 0.6% tungsten. No one type of steel is right for every knife, and by fully understanding the differences between popular types of steel, you'll be better able to make the right decision for your next big knife purchase. The higher percentage of vanadium in this steel creates a fine grain structure to better hold an edge. March 31, 2020. According to some manufacturers and knife makers, the 20CV is the best of the three at holding an edge. Another consideration is corrosion. CPM S35VN hasn't been around all that long -- it originated in 2009 as Crucible Industries' attempt to improve on their previous top steel, CPM S30V. Yeah, you can also add CTS-204P to that club. CTS-204P/CPM-20CV/Bohler M390 (Same steel, different companies, imo the best balance of edge retention, toughness, and stainless without compromising anything, it really doesn't get better than this.
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